Hey guys, remember Luke Jackson? The guy who started the whole Helix thing on accident and recently has been running around these here Internets being super offensive just to gain kudos (and perhaps sweet lovin’) from William Sanders and the people who hang out on his message board. Well, he’s just taken his crazy act up to a whole other level! Our boy is growing up so fast.
Previously on As The World Fails, there was a nasty commenter named Igor Sanchez who often left blatant and stupid racist and sexist hate comments on people’s blogs. As you do in such instances, I and many others banned him. Life went on. During the recent RaceFail, Igor made a comeback, just once, with a comment that very, very closely followed one by Luke Jackson in the same post. Both were moderated by default, and I only took note of them being together because they happened to be in the mod queue. Something in the back of my mind said that it was related, but I didn’t care all that much.
Yesterday Kynn exposed Luke as Igor Sanchez, which wasn’t surprising but still, WTF people? Luke upgrades from a Fail Boat to a Fail Ocean Liner — Failiner!
But wait, there’s more! Upset at the fact that no one cares about or listens to him (including, apprently, Mr. Sanders himself), Luke is determined to do something so awful that people will may SO MUCH attention to him. So, when attacking Kynn for being trans didn’t drive traffic enough, he decided to try posting Kynn’s home address and phone number. Not only is that massive fail in and of itself, but even moreso since he got it wrong — that’s not Kynn’s address.
Any intelligent being who reads this blog understands full well the multilayered disgustingness going on here. And were it not so very deep and wrong, I wouldn’t bother giving Luke the Google Juice. However, this is not longer about a blog pissing contest, it’s about a mentally unbalanced person hunting down someone’s “real” name, address, and phone number thenn inviting his (non-existent) fans to call and get to the bottom of things. (things being Kynn’s private parts, which Luke is desperately curious about.)
The bottom line is, Luke Jackson (lawyer in the prestigious firm of Choe, Jackson and Weitz, for all your sexual harassment needs!) is a sad, dangerous troll who is so screamingly frustrated with his own insignificance that he would rather committ borderline illegal acts than be ignored or mocked. I suggest you all act accordingly.
Tempest, dont know if you have seen this from Transgriot yet, http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2009/02/online-discourse-frustrations.html
Thanks, Marguerite. Nice to hear from you.
Anyway, I regret posting here, each apology I write is making things worse, so it’s wiser to cut and run and stay in less creepy and unforgiving places. Too many bad vibrations here. I’m feeling like an unwelcome alien.
Fabrice, you know me from over at Asimov’s–let me tell you, you can’t go by what they say over there….
And by the way, I’ve read 2 Henry VIII biographies! :)
And byt eh way, I’ve read 2 Henry VIII biographies! :)
Thanks Silviamg.
I’ve found an interesting blog indeed (I think I will read it regularly, but post with more care, at least on political and social US issues, if not on SF/F issues) and an interesting new author! :)
Fabrice,
I’m cool with you. I think it’s hard to communicate when we are just posting on a little screen.
But hey, you’ve found an interesting blog to read that discusses some stuff you are not familiar with. I think that’s neat. :)
Kynn, Delux, Silviamg,
Lecturing, charging in, patronizing, insulting?
If it’s how I sound to you all, I apologize with all my heart, by it certainly wasn’t my intention, far from it. If I hurt some of you, my deepest apologies again (apparently what one reads in magazines or books here is not the whole picture, but my intentions were good).
Sorry
Never said they were solved in the 60’s. Said the main battles were won in the 60s (not the same). Race relations ar not “solved” anywhere. Not in the USA. Nor elsewhere either. That’s probably part of the human nature (birds of a feather fly together, etc…). Petty discriminations exists everywhere, even unconscious ones. There’s a racist part in each of us, some fight it, some don’t. But there has been some steady anf regular progress in the USA since the 60s, like it or not. And Obama’s election is a step (great or small, depends on your POV), in the good direction. Is there still work to do? Sure! Do injustices and inequities still exist? Sure! But, still, things aren’t what they used to be…
Fabrice, why are you, a person in France, lecturing Delux, a black woman in America, on what racism in America is really like?
Who are you to say what is “petty” or not, unless you have lived under those oppressions? Who are you to come charging in (yes, that term again) with such loaded and privileged bull as lecturing on “steady and regular progress in the US…like it not“? (How patronizingly insulting to imply that Delux would either not like progress or would not like to admit it!)
The “progress” in the US has neither been “steady” nor “regular.” It’s been fought for every step of the way, in pain and sweat and tears and blood and lives, by people like Delux. It is not some sort of “natural evolutionary process,” but the result of strong activist response in the face of white people who would push back that progress.
You are very presumptuous and insulting in your words, and horrendously ignorant. Your privilege in trying to use hard-earned civil rights in America as a weapon to defend your ignorance is monstrously galling.
You need to stop saying these things right now.
Thanks Kynn. I’m not even going to respond to this tomfoolery.
Kynn,
Yes, I’m an “Asimovian”, but like several of us, I live on the eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean (France in my case) and I realize I wasn’t completely aware that the racial issues were still so heated in the USA (not that we haven’t ours too here!). I htought the main battles were won in the 60s!
I think it not just the race thing. His behavior has been childish and silly. Would you like to hire someone like that to work for you? As an editor you are going to have to work with the writer. I’d be terrified that if I send him revisions he is going to post my phone number on the web and some racial slurs. It’s not worth the headache when there are many more writers who do good work and don’t create weird aliases and troll blogs.
I simply don’t think he takes criticism well. His response is to insult people and say “I didn’t want to be a writer anyway. Ha!” or “You’re censoring me!”
Anyway, I first noticed him when he was complaining over at Mamatas’ thread that he had been banned from blogs and that he didn’t have as big a readership as other livejournalers. All of which makes it sound like a petty, vindictive squabble.
Wank of the week, I suppose.
In that case, Fabrice, maybe you should take the time to familiarize yourself more with the ‘heated issues’ of the day in the US before you charge in on discussions about them?
Why Delux, that’s CRAZYTALK! Are you trying to stop people from sharing their opinions — even if they don’t know anything about the topic? That’s CENSORSHIP! And RACISM! Somehow. Also, why are you taking this so PERSONALLY? I mean it’s not like it really affects…anyone…in France.
That’s how I roll. American hegemony, fo’ liiiiife!
Delux,
Did I really “charge in”? I don’t think so.
And did you never speak about an issue you thought you had a good knowledge of, only to discover then that your knowledge was biased or not as complete as you thought? If so, congratulations, you’re someone really special.
:)
Fabrice, I’m not sure how much specialness it takes to be aware that race relations in the US werent solved by waving a magic wand 40 years ago.
Fabrice, you said:
The so called “proof” you are providing on the link between Luke Jackson and Igor Sanchez seems pretty slim and inconclusive. The real bottom line is you’re accusing someone without real proof. Are you sure you’re not the one pursuing your own little unbalanced vendetta?
…how could accusing Tempest of her “own little unbalanced vendetta” ever not be interpreted as charging in?
You publicly dismissed facts that you later had to apologize for do so with, and you smeared Tempest for the crime of being correct about Igor/Luke, and your defense now that you admit your complete ignorance about race relations in America is that you weren’t charging in??
Please, for fuck’s sake, look at what you wrote and shut up with the pity plays.
Fabrice, I think there are many cases where we all start talking about stuff we know little about just for the sake of having an opinion or to be heard. Specially on the Internet. When it is something like discussing a movie or music, it’s not that bad if you don’t have a good knowledge about what the whole issue is about.
But when you wade into a discussion about something that is dear to someone’s heart and very delicate, such as race, not having done your homework so to speak can be much more hurtful to me than you not knowing that it was Dope, not Manson, who did a cover of You Spin Me Round.
Add to that the fact that probably 100 people have posted something similar to you – because they did not bother to read the thread – and you end up with some very frustrated people.
You came to this blog thinking that Luke was “the good guy” and Tempest was the “bad guy” and you were surprised to discover this was not the case when you found this thread. However, had you checked her blog before posting and defending him you might have discovered he is not a very polite person. In fact he is a troll.
That lack of desire to seek information is probably inherent in many of us. The Internet age allows us to post many opinions with the click of a button and without an informed background.
However, in the case of topics such as race if you haven’t had the interest to seek information on the subject before wading into the discussion well … lets just say that you probably wouldn’t want to talk to me about politics in the the court of Henry VIII with out having read a book about him. Not because I wouldn’t have a discussion with you, but because the level of the discussion we could have would have been so much lower and ended rather quickly.
It’s the same with a topic such as race. If you want to have a rich, interesting discussion, you might want to read a bit in order to see a more finely embroidered conversation. Otherwise you are just left with rough sketch lines that might not be compelling for you or the other participants in the discussion.
Cheers to you.
Shame on me! Until friday, I thought Luke was a nice liberal guy (accidentally stuck in the Helix incident), and that Tempest was a whitey-hating monster! As for Tempest, I don’t know any more (but I now have serious doubts), as for Luke, I was clearly blinded.
Fabrice, I am about the whitest Whitey around, and Tempest has never said anything hateful toward me — while Luke Jackson has mocked Tempest’s race and gender, Nick Mamatas’ ethnicity, and my gender identity and appearance, and that’s just off the top of my head and not counting whatever things “Igor Sanchez” has written.
I can assure you that while Tempest is outspoken against privilege, she is definitely not a whitey-hater, and there’s only been one person acting like a monster in this whole mess.
I am glad you are realizing that whatever story you’ve been told on Asimovs.com or elsewhere is a fabrication to disguise what really happened.
One more thing — Luke probably IS a “nice liberal guy,” and a very representative sample of such. A lot of well-meaning, liberal white men have serious problems with unexamined privilege and display horrible reactions when confronted with their own oppressive effects on women, people of color, and other folks negatively impacted by their exercise of privilege.
I have seen it happen a lot before; part of it is that white men in general simply don’t understand what privilege(s) they employ, part of it is that “nice” guys are often defended by their friends and supported/enabled in their poor behavior (as you’ve done yourself), and part of it is that self-described liberals are particularly susceptible to thinking of racism and sexism as only conservative problems. I.e., unless you’re a klansman or Rush Limbaugh or Ann Coulter, you’re not racist or sexist — after all, you voted for Hillary in the primary and Barack in the general election!
Of course, it’s debatable whether Luke is actually “nice” or not [*], but it is important to remember that one aspect of white privilege is that by default white people are subconsciously considered “nice” by most other white people and may prove themselves “not-nice”, but people of color are “not-nice” and have to prove they are “nice” — an impossible trick to accomplish if you are also going to confront and fight against privilege and oppression.
[*] Okay, yeah, it really isn’t “debatable” — Luke/”Igor” is clearly an asshole. But being “nice” is overrated; I’m not nice usually myself, and neither are a lot of other people. Luke’s problem isn’t that he’s “not-nice,” it’s that he belches forth vast amounts of privileged shit whenever he opens his damn mouth.
very very well said.
this is the whole cultural appropriation fail in a nutshell, this right here. because it applies to almost all of us–there’s always an issue where we can think that we are “too nice” to be whatever thing we’re being told we’ve just blundered into.
Hmm, if you think Luke is representative of nice liberal guys, you have met a vastly different sample of liberal guys than I have.
No flipping kidding.
I’m white, and Tempest doesn’t hate me. Not even when we argue. :-)
I’m unsure how to respond to this comment. On one hand, it’s nice to know that there are doubts about my whitey-hating status. On the other: WTF!? This just proves that I am missing out on nothing worthwhile by not even peeking into the Asimov’s forums ever.
You’re probably missing on nothing by not peeking into the political part of Asimov’s forum (although from time to time there is an interesting discussion there, but it’s rare). The rest of the forum is quite OK.
Kynn, my heartfelt vote of thanks for outing Luke Jackson/Igor Sanchez. You’re a public benefactor. There aren’t as many serious bad guys online as you’d sometimes think, but they do a disproportionate amount of damage, and they get worse with time and practice. Luke Jackson’s on a scary trajectory, and he’s starting to take it into the real world. I hope someone who has standing will talk to the police about him.
I admired your judicious comments on the relationship between writer and content:
That’s as good a summary as I’ve seen of that issue.
And Tempest, thank you for being willing to go public about this stuff. Have I ever mentioned that I’ve loathed William Sanders for more than a decade now?
I can’t even think of anything to say about how spectacularly fucked up this whole mess is. Other than you’d think a lawyer would be smart enough not to do this. Guess not!
Information posted, with updated call to action, on shangy_feminism:
http://community.livejournal.com/shangy_feminism/38579.html
Hum, Maevele. Thanks for the welcome. At least, I can assure I may be an asshole (if you want to think so), but not a transphobic asshole.
i just saw this. you weren’t who was raising the asshole bar. i was referring to the actual suject of the post
Wow. The asshole bar is raised yet higher!
The so called “proof” you are providing on the link between Luke Jackson and Igor Sanchez seems pretty slim and inconclusive. The real bottom line is you’re accusing someone without real proof. Are you sure you’re not the one pursuing your own little unbalanced vendetta?
Not my proof, Kynn’s proof. Though I don’t doubt him. The actions of Igor Sanchez are completely in line with those of Luke Jackson.
Hum, the masked avatar your site gave me is not very cheering….
Strangely enough, you have some common grounds with Luke Jackson. I remember reading a story of his in Electric Velocipede (last year?) and I saw in the latest issue that one of your stories is scheduled in that same magazine.
Back to topic, I can’t imagine a lawyer working for an office specialized in sexual harassment and gender discrimination cases doing that. And being stupid enough to leave traces of his real identity.
As for the Helix case you’re hinting at, I can’t imagine an author doing that intentionally to get public attention; provoking the ire of editors is not the best way to getting published. Probably a blunder, and he tried to make amends for it by taking sides with Sanders, thus compounding his initial mistake in pubic eyes. All in all, much ado about nothing (apparently, everybody already knew that Sanders was not a pure saint). The blogosphere can be a cruel world!
“Back to topic, I can’t imagine a lawyer working for an office specialized in sexual harassment and gender discrimination cases doing that.”
Go back a few days on Tempest’s blog. Luke, signing as Luke, called her a negress. He has called women at other blogs bitches and used a number of other racial/gender insults. He called Nick Mamatas a feta cheese, if I recall correctly (he’s Greek).
I fail to understand to what all your points tend.
My points tend to … nowhere special. They are just general comments on your post that I felt was a bit offensive. Will follow silviamg’s suggestion to have a better perspective.
Back to topic, I can’t imagine a lawyer working for an office specialized in sexual harassment and gender discrimination cases doing that. And being stupid enough to leave traces of his real identity.
Your lack of imagination has nothing to do with what’s going on here.
It’s pretty clear when Luke posts to say “this was inspired by you” and provides the URL to Igor’s rape fantasies that he’s accidentally taking credit for his own stuff. Pretending as if this weren’t the case is pretty disingenuous.
Well, I followed all the links provided, and I must admit I’m compelled to suspend my disbelief.
You’re right. Sorry, Kynn.
He probably thinks it is funny or sarcastic. It really isn’t. He must also think his Internet persona is separate from his work persona and thus he can say anything he wants. But it just looks silly and bitter. Plus, who really wants to be known as the crazy person who posts slurs and trolls other writer’s journals?
Kynn and Tempest, I hope you’ll call the California bar association to ask whether you have grounds for filing an ethics complaint against Atty. Jackson. The number is 213-765-1200.
Very sorry you both had to deal with this. What a jerk.
As for the Helix case you’re hinting at, I can’t imagine an author doing that intentionally to get public attention; provoking the ire of editors is not the best way to getting published.
Oh, and no one claimed that he posted the rejection as anything other than an accident. He didn’t see anything wrong with the racist content of Sanders’ letter; he never meant for it to explode as it did. He was pretty clearly defending Sanders not just because he felt bad about Sanders getting in hot water over his bigotry, but also because he supports that kind of bigotry himself.
Fabrice, you aren’t posting from, say, the Palms-Rancho Park branch of the Los Angeles Public Library, are you?
The evidence seems pretty damning to me, but even if it wasn’t, Jackson is still posting someone’s name, address and phone number online (while also being a transphobic asshole). Even if he wasn’t Igor Sanchez, he is still perpetrating the abuse, attacks, and hate that Tempest mentions.
I misread Tempest’s post. I thought it was Igor Sanchez that posted someone’s name, address and phone number.
I thought it was Igor Sanchez that posted someone’s name, address and phone number.
It was; he just did it under his real name.
He probably doesn’t think he’s racist; he’s just thinks he’s being “ironic.” I’ll be damned if I can tell the difference between his brand of ironic racism and the real thing. But then, I’m not white.
Hypothetically speaking only, who actually wants to *drive* potential readers away? I guess only the crazy know the that one.
WTH?? I knew he was edging up to batshit, but I didn’t realize he’d taking a running dive.
I just thought he was imitating William Sanders in some kind of devotional thing. Now I think he’s trying to make Sanders look cool and collected by comparison.
God DAMN. That’s just…who the hell are these people, and is there some sort of permanent ink we can spray them with so no one has to take them seriously again?
And this is exactly why the drama around “Oh we use our real names” is a privilege that you cannot assume for folks doing anti-oppression work online.